[Shadow Wedge]

There are 12 levels and 5 bosses:
Forest Falls Zone (Act 1, Act 2, Boss)
Colosseum Highway Zone (Act 1, Act 2, Boss)
Sky Park Zone (Act 1, Act 2)
Crystal Mountain Zone (Act 1, Act 2, Boss)
Death Yard Zone (Act 1, Act 2, Boss)
Meteor Base Zone (Act 1, Act 2, Boss)

The game keeps track of 5 statistics for each level: score, time, rings, attacks, and boosts. Attacks and boosts add to the score, and probably shouldn't be categories. There is no differentiation between which character is used regarding the records. As usual, higher score and rings is good, and lower times is good. There are no difficulty modes to worry about.

There is no differentiation between which mode is used (story, challenge, cup) to obtain the records except in Meteor Base Zone Act 1, 2, & Boss and Death Yard Zone Boss, where in story mode you have no opponent or the opponent will not attack the boss, and there are occasional cutscenes where another character starts a platform/warp/etc. Story mode will probably yield better times/rings for this zone, since no opponent means that you cannot be attacked. There should not be a problem with using story mode for these modes.

On Boss stages, rings spawn infinitely. Also, attacking your opponent gives a score boost. So it is possible to maximise the rings and score provided that the player prevents the opponent from hitting Eggman. I think that rings and score should therefore not be tracked on these stages.

This is the current list of rankings then, using information from knuckles_sonic8 and from discussions in the chat. There are no different divisions for characters, as the differences between any two characters is minor enough to make it not worth keeping track of them.

Boss Times	Times	Rings	Scores
Egg Turtle	Forest Falls Zone 1	Forest Falls Zone 1	Forest Falls Zone 1
Egg Falcon	Forest Falls Zone 2	Forest Falls Zone 2	Forest Falls Zone 2
Egg Lynx	Colosseum Highway Zone 1	Colosseum Highway Zone 1	Colosseum Highway Zone 1
Egg Kong	Colosseum Highway Zone 2	Colosseum Highway Zone 2	Colosseum Highway Zone 2
Egg Destroyer	Sky Park Zone 1	Sky Park Zone 1	Sky Park Zone 1
	Sky Park Zone 2	Sky Park Zone 2	Sky Park Zone 2
	Crystal Mountain Zone 1	Crystal Mountain Zone 1	Crystal Mountain Zone 1
	Crystal Mountain Zone 2	Crystal Mountain Zone 2	Crystal Mountain Zone 2
	Death Yard Zone 1	Death Yard Zone 1	Death Yard Zone 1
	Death Yard Zone 2	Death Yard Zone 2	Death Yard Zone 2
	Meteor Base Zone 1	Meteor Base Zone 1	Meteor Base Zone 1
	Meteor Base Zone 2	Meteor Base Zone 2	Meteor Base Zone 2

[KnucklesSonic8]

I kinda beat you to it; ever hear of my topic: "New Competition Suggestions". Maybe you haven't heard of it, although I find that very unlikely. Anyway, I posted stuff regarding it so please review it and add to it anything I missed - I know I missed that thing about Meteor Base in Story Mode... forgot about that. And, hey, at least now I'm not the only one who got this game. I'm posting my stats soon too. I typed 'em all up. Wonder how we compare? (But it wouldn't be accurate per se since my Times still needed to be improved before I had to give the game back but, alas, I could not :P).

Anyway, please visit my topic as I have been dubbed responsibility with making a proposal for Sonic Rivals for competition here on the site. Thanks a bunch.

[Spinballwizard]

And who dubbed you with this "responsibility"? I want answers. Documentation. SIGNED DOCUMENTS. SIGNED WITH SOULS.

Besides, frankly it's easier to spot here.

SWedge: How is it, considering I probably won't waste the money to get a PSP for it anyways? And are there any difficulty settings (as in games on Nintendo handhelds) to worry about?

[KnucklesSonic8]

So first you diss me then you ignore me... okay.. Besides, I wasn't speaking literally about the responsibility thing. And to me this is a waste of a thread that could be just gone into my topic but that's just me; but hey, I wouldn't mind this topic be open'd it's just I told everyone I was gonna deal with all Next-Gen games before (way before I think) the site even went down temporarily. You can check if you don't believe me. But anyways, like I said, I'd appreciate Wedge's help. We can help each other for this proposal but as I said, I'd probably make the final proposal to Rolken if we get that far.

And although you seemed to be icing me there, MY opinion of the game is that it's pretty good. I rented the game and had it for 5 days (actually kept it for another day after that). The second day, had all S ranks (but it wasn't easy); Fifth/sixth day completed all challenges. Sixth day, had only one card left and didn't get it before I returned it! UGH!

I gotta admit, though, the game went by pretty fast. I have to admit to that. For some, it could be really hard but I got used to it and got pretty good, I think. I would have loved to play mutliplayer with someone....

Personally, I wouldn't pay 49.99 for it. I saw Future Shop where I live have it for 39.99 right now but I still wouldn't pay that much. I'd pay maximum 30 or 35 probably since I practically beat it - only reason for keeping it would be for multiplayer, my siblings, and for competitions.

And what do you mean by difficulty settings?

But anyway, let's not start an argument over this. Whaddya say, Wedge. Wanna give me a hand? Anyone else on TSC have the game?

[magnum12]

I have a PSP, but I'll probably get Rivals by Christmas, so I won't be of too much help until then.

[KnucklesSonic8]

No worries. At least that's, potentially, three people on TSC that have/will have access to Rivals. S'all good. Magnum, if you want my opinion on it, let me know.

[F-Man]

ks8, stop thinking of this responsibility of making "proposals" and stuff. It was understandable for old games that we just didn't get to adding yet, but Sonic Rivals and Sonic 2006 are two completely new games that are 100% sure of being added. There's no proposal to do here, we just have to figure out the divisions, levels, etc. then send everything to Rolken  on the chat or wherever so he can put it up.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Well that's great news! Naturally, I knew 06 would 100% be added but I didn't think Rivals would for one reason or another. Thanks! And yeah, sorry about going all responsible on you all. :P (This is also great since Secret Rings will get added as well! :D)

Anyways, Shadow Wedge, it's up to you, would you like to carry this discussion over at my topic or just continue with it here? I've already posted a bunch of notable info as well as creating a rough/potential divisions list. What do you (or anyone else) think? The divisions list is listed below but you may need more details from me (remember, this is only a rough draft).

[magnum12]

I've checked the competition info on Rivals and it looks good. I heard its a good game if not a bit short.

[KnucklesSonic8]

It is. It's really good IMO but, yeah, it is short unfortauntely. But I'd replay it; I always find replay value in my games someway or another. :D

I'd rate it an 8.5 or less. If it was longer and there were things I was hoping for, I'd rate it higher.

[Spinballwizard]

I'm really glad you can read posts.

And although you seemed to be icing me there, MY opinion of the game is that it's pretty good.

Let me repeat what I said:

How is it, considering I probably won't waste the money to get a PSP for it anyways?

Repeat: I don't have a PSP. I never made an opinion on the game. I'm just not getting a PSP for one game.

And what do you mean by difficulty settings?

From the same post:

And are there any difficulty settings (as in games on Nintendo handhelds) to worry about?

Sonic Advance, Advance 2, Advance 3, and Sonic Rush all had a difficulty setting in the Options Menu, allowing for an Easy Mode (which is not allowed -- the rules actually state that TA mode must be used for all levels/bosses that allow it). I'm asking if Rivals has that.

I won't make any more issues of this, just saying one more thing. Don't try to claim ungiven authority. Especially when it's Underling-to-Spaceship as it is here.

Oh, and stop fucking advertising "your" topic. People can see it. Just discuss things here, make it easier.

[Shadow Wedge]

I've not been here in the last several months. As far as I knew, no one had posted anything regarding Sonic Rivals. This is just the important information for Rolken (divisions and optional rules) in an easy-to-spot location.

There are no different difficulties that adversely affect the game. In challenge mode, there are three difficulties, and the AI is somewhat easier on the easier difficulties, but it doesn't make that much difference (the major differences between the difficulties is the target time/ring/attacks/etc. for obtaining cards).

The game's pretty good. The story's pretty simplistic, and the emphasis is more on keeping your opponent just behind you rather than outdistancing them (the rubberband effect is pretty strong, so it's easy to keep up but hard to pass without skill, and so forth). I'd give it a 6.5-7 out of ten.

[Crowbar]

Damn, that's at least 2 reasons now for me to wish I could be bothered to get a PSP (the other being Loco Roco).

What are the physics like? Old-skool? Rush? Or something new? And are the levels as amazingly TA-able as Rush's? I'm curious since it's a completely new dev team (for Sonic) that's done it.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Well, SBW, not gonna bother arguing so I'll let it slide. Besides, I'm not that kinda person.

Crowbar, I never had Rush before nor played it so I couldn't help you there but if you want go to GameTrailers and watch the latest gameplay movie ("Carnival Frenzy" I believe they dubbed it). Maybe that'll help.

It is old-school and it does go back to Sonic's "roots" (probably more so than 06 but I can't make a fair judgment) but there are a few bits and pieces in there that make the game what it is - a great game. Like I said, though, Story is short but beating all challenges may take a while - not the case for me but anyways - and the levels... I don't know what you mean by "amazingly TA-able" but I'll go out on a limb and say here that it'll be hard on some stages to get good times and it's quite fun to tryto look for shortcuts and such. Anymore info, just ask.

Shadow Wedge, you must have missed when I started talking about it and other games then but anyway, no biggie. I will gladly transport all my findings on Rivals here but my updates on it may still be posted in my topic I dunno. Anyway, take a look and see what you think. BTW, did you check out the attachment? Any thoughts?

[KnucklesSonic8]

Here's exactly what I posted, the most recent post, regarding Rivals:

"
Rivals:

Random moment:
In Sonic's Story, right before the last boss, Sonic delivers the line: "That's Amy's card. I totally forgot about her." It was a funny moment I guess.

Remember in the "Funny video game moments" topic, I mentioned that in SA2B when I was facing one of my relatives/siblings on Final Rush, when Amy fell, her voice echo'd very loudly? The same thing happened in one race with my as Sonic and the rival as Knuckles who fell off at the last second because he missed the pulley - I got it first. I started laughing because his voice echo'd similar to that of Amy.

Divisions:

Forest Falls (1)
Forest Falls (2)
Forest Falls (B) - Egg Turtle
Colosseum Highway (2)
Colosseum Highway (1)
Colosseum Highway (B) - Egg Falcon
Sky Park (1)
Sky Park (2)
Crystal Mountain (1)
Crystal Mountain (2)
Crystal Mountain (B) - Egg Lynx
Death Yard (1)
Death Yard (2)
Death Yard (B) - Egg Kong
Meteor Base (1)
Meteor Base (2)
Meteor Base (B) - Egg Destroyer

Each stage has: Rings, Score, Time
Each boss has: Rings, Score, Time
Each division has sub-divisions: Sonic, Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, Metal Sonic - in order.
Each stage has the word "Zone" at the end of it, for the record.

At the results screen, "Boosts" and "Attacks" are shown. Boosts can be done repeatedly by going back and even though you'll still have to worry about winning the race, it's just not competition-worthy. Same thing with Attacks I guess...

Under “Challenge”, there are, well, challenges for each stage, then each act, then each difficulty. There are 5 challenges for each difficulty, act and stage. First is that you must win with an amount of Rings. The next one is that you must win within a certain time limit. Third is that you must perform a number of Boosts. Fourth requires you to Jostle your Rival (leapfrog/kick/punch) a number of times. Final one requires you to use a Power-Up on your Rival a number of times. Nothing is notable in Challenge that we'd have a division for. Participants can replay stages here for stats if they like.

Next up is Cup Circuit. I unlocked them all while I had the game rented. We have....
*1=Act 1,
 2=Act 2,
 B=Boss

Rival Cup
->Forest Falls, 1; Colosseum Highway, 1; Sky Park, 1
Green Chaos Cup
->Forest Falls, 2; Colosseum Highway, 2; Sky Park, 2
Cyan Chaos Cup
->Forest Falls, B; Colosseum Highway, B; Death Yard, B
Red CC
->Colosseum Highway, 2; Crystal Mountain, 1; Meteor Base, 2
Yellow CC
->Crystal Mountain, 2; Death Yard, 2; Meteor Base, 2
Blue CC
->Colosseum Highway, B; Crystal Mountain, B; Meteor Base, B
Purple CC
->Crystal Mountain, 1; Death Yard, 2; Meteor Base, 1
Grey CC
->Forest Falls, 2; Sky Park, 2; Death Yard, 2
....in that order.

There is no diff. for stats here. Players could potentially submit stats here since there's really no difference in how the mode works.

Next thing is that in Options, you have "Summary" which keeps track of your best records - but these are not per character: Best Time, Rank, Score, Highest Rings, Highest Boosts, and, Highest Attacks for each Act in each of the Zones.

In conclusion for that part, I guess, stats for the stages can be done in Story Mode, Challenge Mode, or, Cup Circuit. Boss stats must be done in Story or Challenge. For Metal Sonic, though, they must be made in: Challenge or Cup Circuit (Stages); Challenge (Bosses). Gotta word this all right for a rule if this does get implemented. And so you know, the game is great! I love it. It's funny, though, that Rivals has been perceived more positively than Next-Gen.

A couple of other things:
*I achieved all S-Ranks (like on the first or second day I had it but it is hard; I got really good at the game) but no reward was given. I even defeated all challenges and nada. As much as I wanted cameos playable, no new anything other than the images... http://www.sonicstadium.org/board/index.php?showtopic=23820

*There was a possibility that there is a Last Story as at the end of each person's story, they mention that Eggman Nega still had cards in his possession after he was defeated. All characters talk about how they should go find them (Knuckles says it'll be "fun".... o-kay....) Anyway, no Last Story: http://www.sonicstadium.org/board/index.php?showtopic=23820

*For bosses, I'm not sure if Rings should be included but Times and Scores should be included - Times more so than Scores, though.

*I thought Super Sonic could be unlocked but guess not...: http://www.sonicstadium.org/board/index.php?showtopic=23820

*Costumes do affect gameplay; go figure... well, at least the Leather costume does. They affect how fast you go slightly. If anyone else has this game, the perfect place to test this is on the roller coaster loops for Sky Park - Act 2. Go through the coasters (last few are more accurate I found) with normal character then go again with Leather costume and you'll see the difference -> if you can't pinpoint it, I'll just tell you if you're interested, that is.

I don't know if the other costumes do the same thing (didn't have time to check before I gave the game back).

*Just a note, players lose 10 rings when they are injured.

Note, too, for Score, if you get 50000 (or even a coveted 60000!) points or even more, that's like an indication that that run is practically perfect - trust me... obtaining 60000 is pretty hard to come by ('specially for the final stage - Acts 1 and 2). Another note, for Metal Sonic, times could be quite different all around since, for the Star Power-Up (where characters use their signature move) will have MS copying the ability of the rival he's currently racing, so it depends on who your rival is for the Times division, and possibly Scores (for the Attacks Bonus).

Wanna know what's frustrating? I was one card away from beating the whole game but I had to take the game back!! :P

I was missing "Egg Breaker, #56" and the cards are hard to come by since they're all randomly distributed. UGH!
"

Just regarding something you said, there IS a difference between characters and I do agree that Boosts and attacks should not be categorized. Also, scores should be added to Bosses, IMO, but I don't think Rings sohuld be added since, as you said, they just respawn anyways and it's in a circular arena so it's a little to easy to max out and not really competition-worthy.

Thanks for reminding me, also, that there is a difference between Bosses for Death Yard and Meteor Base as well. Thanks - forgot about the "useless", if you will, AI's. I gotta edit that later but I won't bother now, I just want your opinion on the list (rough) for now and then I'll make necessary changes.

So I shall "lie awake" as I "await" your response. ( quotations refer to something ;) )

[Shadow Wedge]

I'm still not sure about scores in boss levels. Especially for Death Yard and Meteor Zone in story mode -- infinite points can be easily obtained by hitting your rival a million times while he runs in a circle. In other levels, it needs to be determined if it is possible to prevent your opponent from getting any hits on NEggman while you are trying to hit them.

About the costumes: are you certain that it was the equipment, and not something else like number of rings (see SAdv2) or relative position with the opponent? I think that more testing is required for this, and when I have some more free time (ie tomorrow morning) I'll start obtaining more costumes so I can test this.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure about the costumes thing but if you do do more testing, can you test the other costumes for me. As you know, I rented and practically beat the game (one card off! :P) so I tested as much as I could I just didn't do the other costummes - just Leather. And even if it is dependent on rings or whatever, as you suggested, it wouldn't make it difference cause it's not like we're going to restrict or set rules on the costumes or anything of that nature.

Also, I've had second thoughts and I don't think scores should be added for the Boss Stages. This means, then, that times for the Bosses can be submitted under the "Bosses" Header uneder the Submissions pages when it goes up; how does that sound?

So other than the costumes and the bosses (which I just resolved I think) was there anything else you wanted to discuss regarding the rough divisions list. I think we're moving ahead very quickly and I think maybe I'll discuss this with Rolken soon if things go the way they are going now.

We also need to start making rules for the competition so we should get started on that. Other than the rules, I'll just need to finalize the divisions list and then I think we may be done.

edit: new, updated charts. there are still roughs but they're still close to the finals I guess so I just named them that. Let me know what you think about 'em. (Rules are listed in the "Rough" document)

edit: Wedge, I'm still waiting on your feedback as well as anyone else who wanted to take a gander at the lists.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Okay, me and SW finally sorted things out and Rivals Divisions have been finalized! :D
Yay us! Rolken, be prepared.

The divisions can be seen below via the attachment.